Hitchwiki talk:Organization (old stuff)

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  • May someone outline the responsilities an organization would take over if they present themself as Legal Board of Htichwiki.org? It s just about having someone paying the Domain? Is it about having a legal Organisation backing up Hitchwiki.org? Fabzgy 16:33, 10 September 2007 (CEST)
It is about having a legal organisation to back it up. At the moment I pay the domain, and I will probably continue doing this at least for a while. --MrTweek 17:42, 10 September 2007 (CEST)

abgefahren or BeVolunteer?

Would Option 1 mean that the wiki belongs to BV completely?
Both sounds good, but in any case I would like to keep it on my server, to have more control about it (I don't think I could get shell access to the BV-Server; Could I?)
In any case, I prefer the abgefahren-solution. I'll think about it, and let's see what others say --MrTweek 23:29, 11 September 2007 (CEST)

I don t think so. I don t think anyone in BV wants to make our server more busy. BV would probably very welcome it if you keep the wiki on your Server. It s more about a APT (Schnittstelle) between the Travelguide wiki of BW and the HW. This we we would have BeWelcome Memember editing your database. Probably completing it with new information. This could as well be done if HW decides to coohse Abgefahren e.V. as a roof organisation. Fabzgy 00:08, 12 September 2007 (CEST)

I think this would be a good solution and could be used for other organisations as well. Are there actually any APIs that make such things possible? Or is it always copying all the things and loosing the community? --Alex 01:09, 12 September 2007 (CEST)
Hey, I guess that we should choose a hitchhiking relevant organization rather than a volunteer network organization. (i hope i found the right words for both ;-) ) So my choice goes for the German Autostop Society. We of course should ask other HH Clubs/Organizations first, but currently some of the most active people here are already abgefahren members. Maybe this could be a problem for other non-members, so I would love to see some comments from them here.(guaka??) On the other hand we already have our own "abgefahren wiki", currently known as the german version of this wiki. Maybe it would be better for outstanding people to see the "english" version of the wiki in a more international way, and not like an English-written wiki from a German club. I hope you got my point of view......nevertheless, it would be great to create an interface (Schnittstelle?) between both pages, so that members of BW can also add information to the hitchwiki etc. Would be fine! And I've the same question that alex already mentioned... platschisite, wikitalk 16:51, 13 September 2007 (CEST)
I see non of the wikis as a club wiki or written by its club members. Rather, as an organization behind the wiki which ensures the sustainability and growth of the whole project itself (which his resources and/or ability to mobilize people). To come to the API, I think we talk about the same as CS has for example, just to include the wiki in a nice way into your own webpage... --Alex 19:32, 13 September 2007 (CEST)
I get the point with the hitchiking orientated Organiztion but I think a more international Organisation as host would be better - because more neutral. It s indeed easir to get people contribute in a wiki when it s totally international wheter a Project of the German HH Club. Fabzgy 03:54, 14 September 2007 (CEST)
I see the point with a just international organisation, some sort of neutrality. I like the idea, when it is a nice organisation like about hospitality exchange, that people found their way to it. I would not like, even when it is a non-profit organisation, when it gives some the organisation some sort of advantage against other competitors in the same 'business'. I do see such a link between BeWelcome and Hitchhiking. Advantages from BeWelcome profits more from the Hitchhikers than the other way around (which find their way anyway to them). // Arguing further in this line of taking advantage, I would like that a hitchhiking related organisation profits in such a way. A more hitchhiking related club which (direct) aims are to promote hitchhiking as a way of traveling. This must not be the Abgefahren. // To give a comment to the argument of “It s indeed easier to get people contribute in a wiki when it s totally international whether a Project of the German HH”, I think it is never a project of the German HH, rather supported by the German HH (or by any other club). The constitutes of the club (abgefahren) sets a high value on the cooperation between the (international) hitchhiking clubs and community. The clubs aim is not to function as closed up organisation for its own (members) gain, the clubs aim is to server the public. // The reason I am very engaged in this discussion here, is because I see the same parallels between Veits efforts some years ago in IHHC (International Hitchhiker Clubs), the Hitchhikers Database of VHHC and the organisation BeWelcome. The past showed that the goals of such organisation are somehow engulfing. // I am happy to have a discussion about which aims of an organisation would correspond best with the ones of hitchwiki. --Alex 20:28, 14 September 2007 (CEST)
  • "The past showed that the goals of such organisation are somehow engulfing" - The past actions of HC has been governed by a dictator. I think the Organization structure of BeVolunteer is broadly open for everyone interested in intercultural communicaton through Hospitality Exchange. I don t see any tendency to engulf Hitchwiki. It wasn t BeVolunteer who considered first a partnership. That was a posibilty brought into the game by Hitchwiki.
  • "Advantages from BeWelcome profits more from the Hitchhikers than the other way around (which find their way anyway to them)" - Sorry I think I don t get this. You mean BeWelcome profits a lot more from Hitchwiki then the other way around? If so I strongly disagree. The Main Page of Hitchwiki talks about 178 Hitchikers contributing to the wiki. In BeWelcome there are already 1400 + members and after the OutreachCampaign (begining of October) I expect the double number of member until the end of the year. That means the content and the Idea of of Hitchwiki would be distributed to a lot more member than Hitchwiki could spread the Idea of BeWelcome.
  • About internationality of Abgefahren: I ve got to say that I didn t read the constitutes of Abgefahren but just the name of the club let me doubt the internationality of the club. Most of the European Citizen would be unable to pronounce the name of the organization properly.
  • "I am happy to have a discussion about which aims of an organisation would correspond best with the ones of hitchwiki" Main objectives of BeVolunteer:
  1. to establish a democratic work environment // I hope that does correspond with the phylosophy of Hitchwiki.
  2. to build a transparent organisation // thats a precondition.
  3. to encourage active member participation // Whats a Wiki Comunity without their members?
  4. to build a reliable legal and organisational structure // Thats why we are talking about a cooperation.

Anyway, I think it s gonna be time to get a consensus about this issue. How are you going to take a decission? Create a Poll? A cooperation between Hitchwiki and BeWelcome would be interesting as well if Hitchwiki choose Abgefahren as roof organization. Fabzgy 18:36, 15 September 2007 (CEST)

I might be over sensible to the Hospitality Exchange issues, due to their past... maybe too much, sorry. | It is less where the content can be distributed, more about the affiliation (where it comes to politics...). The content could be used and integrate in any case (also in other travel projects), or? | The non international name of Abgefahren was already criticized. | I like the objects of BeVolunteer (this also brings another thing into the discussion: BeWelcome / BeVolunteer). | I do not like a poll, I think a decision should be made by consensus. // Summerzized, I would say there are different things talk about. The backup and growth in the long run and the use of the content. Are those two issues interweaved? --Alex 15:28, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
No! No matter how we decide, we should definitely cooperate with both of them, if that is possible. And yes, also with wikitravel/wikivoyage/whoever. The important question is only the legal status of hitchwiki. --MrTweeksite, wikitalk 16:17, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
Did you contact others hitchhiking clubs as well? --Alex 20:05, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
What for? For the legal stuff not, because abgefahren would be fine for me. For cooperation we should do that in the future, but i think we should do that later. --MrTweeksite, wikitalk 21:02, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
I must say I wouldn't support a merge with a german organisation, with all due respect, germans 'carsharing hitchhiking and its alike' are taking a load of these communities on the web and what I have always seen is that they are all being germanised. Which quite bother me as they become useless on many point. For some of the info communities I had seen by the past, the texts are then being written in german; losing its advantage to be accessible by many; and german seems to auto-promote themselves into an overwhelming majority... which usually ends up that most people from abroad ceases activities under the pressure. You can't promote an association abroad that has a national tag, it wouldn't work as it 'culturalise' the act of hitch-hiking which is then being interpretated as something others do (as country or culture) but not ours... so that should be a point to consider according to your future expectation for such wiki-association as such point of view will exists in Canada, US, UK, France etc... Maplefanta 15:38, 17 September 2007 (CEST)
Hmmm, I really do understand your concerns, and that is a point which I really want to avoid. But due to the fact that we have different wikis for different languages, there will never be any German content here. abgefahren has it's own wiki now, and it will probably run under their domain soon, so that it doesn't even look like a German hitchwiki at the first sight. The only obvious change to hitchwiki would be, that This Page will not need to show my private address. I think it can still be completely international, no matter who is standing behind it. And most of the main contributors of hitchwiki are not German anyway. What do you think? --MrTweeksite, wikitalk 16:25, 17 September 2007 (CEST)
I most simply specified my concerns about it, therefore I would trust your judgment that the appropriate decision will be taken including these considerations. The multiple languages form of the website will be great just as you said, but can we also ensure that a national counterpart won't overcome the international english one? Whatever happens, will a 'collaboration' at a certain extent be possible with the 'other' potential organisation... just as a matter of networking I would believe altogether would make it stronger and that the door shouldn't be close (by that I mean that whatever community is chosen for hosting the system, it would be best to involve some 'collaboration tie friendship' with the one that will not be considerate). Maplefanta 13:13, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
I think it must be international and contributions must come from a wide range of people. --Alex 16:59, 17 September 2007 (CEST)
Organizations are always based in one country or another. And I'd rather deal with an organization in Germany than one in, say, New Hampshire ;) guakasite, wikitalk 19:52, 17 September 2007 (CEST)


  • abgefahren
    • will definitely be responsible for de.hitchwiki.org
    • is a hitchhiking club
  • bevolunteer
    • is international

How we want to keep Hitchwiki

For me the issue about which organization to choose is not so important as long as certain values are being kept. Using the word constitution comes to mind, but that's probably a bit too strong for what I'm aiming at. Anyway, I want to look at this organization issue from a different angle: What do we like so much about this project? And consequently, how do we want to keep it? Let's fill in this page first :) guakasite, wikitalk 21:43, 15 September 2007 (CEST)

How we gonna take a decission?

How could take a decission on this issue? When are we/you goint to do so? Fabzgy 18:27, 29 September 2007 (CEST)

Soon, hopefully. I want to wait for maplefantas answer at least. --MrTweeksite, wikitalk 13:26, 30 September 2007 (CEST)
Hey, this seems to become somehow forgotten. Are we going to make any decision? Any new arguments, meanings or news? platschisite, wikitalk 00:41, 31 October 2007 (CET)
Yeah, right... So I guess we agree on abgefahren? If there are no more issues within the next days, i'll take that as a yes (and try not to forget the discussion this time ;) --MrTweeksite, wikitalk 09:42, 31 October 2007 (CET)
Yeah! If no one comes with serious objections during the next 72 hours it'll be Abgefahren :) guakasite, wikitalk 18:06, 31 October 2007 (CET)
Yeah. But had we any other discussion with some bevolunteer guys except fabian? had they any discussions in their forum or sth? platschisite, wikitalk 18:21, 31 October 2007 (CET)
So is it abgefahren? Any things/changes connected to this? --Alex 13:27, 8 May 2008 (CEST)
Uhm, yes. I'll update the legal note. --MrTweeksite, wikitalk 13:31, 8 May 2008 (CEST)


taken from above :)

How should this API look like? Do they want to integrate hitchwiki into their page? This should be possible somehow. --MrTweeksite, wikitalk 17:05, 13 September 2007 (CEST)

About Intergration of HitchWiki in BW: The Hitchwiki should be a part of our travelguide - maybe accomplished with content from WikiVoyage. I do nt know if this is possible. Display one Article who works with two different DB´s. If the HH Part is edited the edit would be in the HH DB and the same with Wikivoyage. Fabzgy 03:54, 14 September 2007 (CEST)

There's action=render, which is great for this, check e.g. http://en.hitchwiki.org/?title=Hitchwiki_talk:Organization&action=render Just cache the result locally (with a timeout of 30 minutes or so). Then all you need to do is add the GFDL license and possibly a link to action=edit :) guakasite, wikitalk 18:24, 14 September 2007 (CEST)

Perfect. Looks great! So it s actually pretty easy. What is the conclusion so far for the Organization structure? The Cooperation with the Travelguide looks good to me. We should do that anyway. 19:08, 14 September 2007 (CEST)
That's really easy. Just the parsing of the interwiki links and that's it. --Alex 20:31, 14 September 2007 (CEST)
Any news on this one? It would still be cool to include the Wiki in another webpage with a real layout (non wiki)... the information would be spread further... --Alex 18:07, 6 April 2008 (CEST)
Well, the API works. Anyone can include it in their page. --MrTweeksite, wikitalk 09:27, 7 April 2008 (CEST)
Ok. So how can we include the German wiki on Abgefahren page (as CS has included the Wiki on their page)? I do think this would give the wiki a boost. --Alex 13:25, 8 May 2008 (CEST)
Sorry, that was a misunderstanding. The API allows only including the files read-only. A complete integration is a little more tricky. Anyone has ever done this? I'm not sure what the right way to do this would be. --MrTweeksite, wikitalk 13:33, 8 May 2008 (CEST)
Read only would be fine. The keypoint here is that the whole wiki is in the same style as the page and works under the domain. At the bottom the should be a 'add/edit' button (and then you come would come to this wiki-edit window)... Then it would be possible to include the whole wiki in the page (and some parts of it under different sections). --Alex 11:12, 9 May 2008 (CEST)