Difference between revisions of "User talk:Irningston"

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Hey Irningston,
Hey Irningston,
I just upgraded your user rights so you can now delete pages and block users. Don't hesitate doing this is you encounter any spam.
I just upgraded your user rights so you can now delete pages and block users. Don't hesitate doing this if you encounter any spam.
Thanks for the great work :)
Thanks for the great work :)
--[[User:MrTweek|MrTweek]]<sup>([[User_talk:MrTweek|talk]])</sup> 03:51, 5 May 2016 (CEST)
--[[User:MrTweek|MrTweek]]<sup>([[User_talk:MrTweek|talk]])</sup> 03:51, 5 May 2016 (CEST)

Revision as of 02:51, 5 May 2016

I am happy to see your recent additions on Costa Rica, but please don't write in the first person on Hitchwiki ("no one I spoke to had ever heard of 'Cuatros bomberos'"). Hitchwiki aims to offer generalized advice independent of any one editor. If you absolutely must specify that something was personal experience, write in the third person and link to your username. (Also, please be careful to use correct spelling and grammar.) Thanks! CRCulver (talk) 00:16, 8 May 2013 (CEST)

Where are you getting this from, about the prohibition against first person? I see first person used throughout hitchwiki, and I find it very useful. Are there community agreed-upon policies and guidelines you are referring to? -- Irningston (talk) 23:43, 8 May 2013 (CEST)
That articles should be written in 3rd person has been the consensus for years now. See e.g. here. Hitchwiki is full of tips in the first-person because many hitchhikers sign up for an account and start posting their advice without learning the preferred style first. I and other editors try to give new editors a heads-up when we can, but there's not always someone around to clean up the first-person edits they've already made. First person is decidely not useful on a wiki site: any article can have multiple editors, so the reader has no idea who "I" refers to. That's why it's better to write in the third person and link to your username. CRCulver (talk) 02:28, 9 May 2013 (CEST)
I don't see how one edit by one person a few years ago represents consensus. Just because no one changed it doesn't mean there's consensus there. Has there been discussion around this issue? That page, for example, doesn't even have a Talk: page. So there was obviously no discussion there.
While you don't see the usefulness of first person on a wiki site, there's room for debate. Certainly all of the editors who create new accounts and edit in the first person seem to disagree with you. -- Irningston (talk) 22:00, 9 May 2013 (CEST)
Consensus is determined by those who actually stick around and discuss the matter, not people who create accounts, make a few hasty changes without researching Hitchwiki style, and then disappear. I've asked User:guaka, the founder of Hitchwiki, to post here. He'll attest too that a preference for third-person writing goes back years. CRCulver (talk) 02:16, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
Who wouldn't stick around after receiving such a friendly welcome? But in order to "stick around and discuss the matter", there needs to be an atmosphere of openness to discussion and a place where that discussion can take place. How is one supposed to research Hitchwiki style? Irningston (talk) 17:40, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
Hi Irningston. Think about someone else coming in who wants to improve an article? First person writing just doesn't work so well on a wiki. It's common wiki sense to avoid it and there's definitely a consensus on this among active long-term editors. It's okay to add stories in a first person writing, as a specifically marked section of the page, e.g. as in Panama City. Otherwise it's much better to write in 3rd person and link to your user page (tip: write something on it :) guaka (talk) 02:23, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
But where's this consensus? I don't see any discussion or anything. Is it all happening on different user_talk pages? Or off-wiki? I expect more openness and transparency than just being told, "All the people who've been here a long time agree. Look, even the founder of the wiki will tell you so." Above, CRCulver complains of people who don't research Hitchwiki style, but there's literally no where to do that besides the articles themselves. Irningston (talk) 17:40, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
The community of active editors is so small that consensus about things like this tend to play out through casual discussion among us instead of bureaucratic processes. Plus, many of the active editors have long experience in other wiki projects, so the prohibition of first-person writing is just so bloody obvious that the need to spell it out clearly for new editors hasn't been felt as much as it perhaps should. If you think that guidelines to help those new to the site are missing, perhaps you'd like to volunteer? CRCulver (talk) 17:03, 11 May 2013 (CEST)
Are you sincerely inviting me to write editing guidelines for hitchwiki? Given that I have little experience with hitchwiki, am obviously unfamiliar with the norms here, and was therefore looking for these guidelines myself, I have a hard time taking you seriously, especially considering that what is "so bloody obvious" for the long-time consensus-makers is not so obvious to me. However, if there were somewhere for these discussions to take place, I would be more than happy to participate. Irningston (talk) 18:32, 11 May 2013 (CEST)
Well, I thought you might have suggestions on what kind of documentation should go up and where, and more experienced editors could fill it in. However, I'm happy to see that Wikivoyage already has a page against writing in the first person, and since Wikivoyage is CC-licenced, there shouldn't be a problem bringing it over to Hitchwiki. CRCulver (talk) 20:11, 12 May 2013 (CEST)
Welcome Irningston to Hitchwiki! Great you made a few first edits. For new users, as far as I remember, hitchwiki mentions on several places that new folks should just simply start editing and participating, and shouldn't care about lay-out and writing rules, see e.g. How to participate: Add your knowledge to Hitchwiki. Just click edit (even on this page!) or create a new page. Don't worry about formatting or layout. There are a lot of keen eyes watching around and fixing stuff. It seems like the 1st/3rd person writing style (unwritten?) rule needs some more clarity, so maybe we could move the discussion to discuss ideas, propose suggestions for improvements and place some more clear writing guidelines on more visible spots for editors. But, as said before, new users should, in my opinion, not care at all about guidelines in the first place. --Platschi (talk) 01:49, 13 May 2013 (CEST)
Thanks. I appreciate your encouragement. But really, I'm not worried about formatting or layout but rather I was bothered by the lack of transparency regarding hitchwiki protocol. What does consensus mean at hitchwiki? It really came across as people with more experience than me telling me what to do because that's what they decided - no where for me to see how these decisions were made or by whom, much less participate in them myself. That was frustrating. I just took a look at [[Hitchwiki:Community_Portal, and that definitely looks like it would be the place for these sorts of conversations. Thanks for showing me that. It's really good to know that that place exists even if it gets little use. Irningston (talk) 06:54, 13 May 2013 (CEST)
Irningston, check stuff in [[Category:Hitchwiki]] and comment and edit :) And please also read e.g. this article on wikivoyage. guaka (talk) 01:21, 12 May 2013 (CEST)
Thanks! Irningston (talk) 06:54, 13 May 2013 (CEST)

Recent Changes Cleanup

I've added you to the group of users who can use the Recent Changes Cleanup add-on. Can you use it if you add the Welcome Template and when you make, hopefully not again, mass changes that don't really add anything useful to the visible Recent Changes page. The add-on sets the "bot"-bit, hiding changes until you click the "Show bots" link. Prinoblog, talk 14:51, 15 September 2015 (CEST)

Ok, just to make sure I understood: when I welcome new users or do other things that for whatever reason might be considered "bot-level" changes, I should visit that link you just gave me and click "Hide" next to those changes? -- Irningston (talk) 18:29, 15 September 2015 (CEST)
Yes, although "should" is too strong. It would be nice to do it, as it keeps only the real Recent Changes visible. Ditto for experimenting on your own page. It's not very interesting for others to see that User:Prino has been changing his user page(s) and rather than using Preview, has used Save page 42 times. (No, I don't, but I do hide "new trip" the changes I make to my User and log pages) For what it's worth, I usually middle-click the Hide link as that stops the page from refreshing, which means you can hide a lot of entries very quickly, closing tabs is faster that scrolling down again and again. Prinoblog, talk 21:38, 15 September 2015 (CEST)

Hey, thanks for the welcome message! I very like this wiki, and it's very useful for hitchhikers like me with few experience. Hope to see you around! --Francesc4052 (talk) 22:57, 27 October 2015 (CET)

You're welcome! Irningston (talk) 19:44, 7 February 2016 (CET)

Hi, thank you for the warm welcome! I am mostly active on the map adding points, but from now and then I might add something to the wiki as well :) --Santa klaus (talk) 12:06, 26 January 2016 (CET)

You're welcome! Irningston (talk) 19:44, 7 February 2016 (CET)

Fighting Spam

Hey Irningston, I just upgraded your user rights so you can now delete pages and block users. Don't hesitate doing this if you encounter any spam. Thanks for the great work :) --MrTweek(talk) 03:51, 5 May 2016 (CEST)