Talk:Hitchhiking a boat
Comment from User:Oceandomain about recent revert, copied from User talk:Treefrog:
Hi Treefrog, you're right I'm new here so not sure if this is the talk page I'm meant to use. I strongly disagree with you! There is a difference between promotion and being factual. What was written about Find a Crew was in some instances entirely wrong and rather aimed at misleading readers. If you don't see it like this then can I ask if there is a moderator who can compare what has written before and if they would agree with your entire dismissal of the edit. I find it rather unethical that you are suggesting to readers that they can or should use Crewbay for free because that would certainly be the end of such a website. Isn't Hitchwiki to be informative rather then manipulative? Also floatplan and 7knots are no longer hosting, so why would you delete all of that? Who's interest are you protecting or promoting here?
- Hi Oceandomain! Welcome! The idea around here is to work out disagreements ourselves, so let's see if we can find some common ground. Note that you can sign your comments by typing ~~~~ at the end, and if you want to indent, you can start the line with a colon.
- First, your Floatplan and 7knots edits were fine, but just got reverted because they were part of a long list of edits that I was trying to revert the rest of. I can take a look tomorrow and reinstate those changes.
- Second, you should understand that Hitchwiki is a website for people who hitchhike and travel for free or very cheaply. If you're against sharing information on how to legally do things for free, you may be on the wrong site. I'm not associated with any of the companies listed on this page, and my only agenda is to help other hitchhikers. As for Crewbay specifically, they specifically promote their site as offering a useful free membership, so it really seems like a stretch to claim that it's unethical for me to point that out:
- We aim to save you time and money. For starters we’re free to post and communicate. It’s what makes us great! Our free membership has everything you need to find a boat. You'll get an advert, profile, and the ability to send messages to other members.
- I'm not sure what you thought was misleading or wrong about the text of the article. Maybe you can tell me specifically what you were referring to. What I saw was that you bulked up the FindACrew section with a lot of extra details that made it much longer than the other listings, and the opinions you insterted about the pricing seemed out of touch with the rest of the content on Hitchwiki (i.e. not many users here will feel like AUD$75/month is a good deal just because it doesn't auto-renew). FindACrew is already placed at the top of the list and clearly stated to have by far the largest number of opportunities, so your efforts to further emphasize it made me suspect that you have some interest in promoting them over their competitors. You even added a company slogan, which is totally out of place here.
- Maybe you could tell me a bit about yourself, to help build trust. Are you working for FindACrew? Are you a hitchhiker? Do you have personal experiences trying to find boats as a traveler?
Hi Treefrog, I'm not sure if we can find a common ground here. I travelled the world many times over, but never ever did so at someone else’s expense. If this is what free or cheap travel means to you or this entire platform - good luck to you, I’m glad I never met you in person. I provided useful, factual, and honest information. I'm a proud traveller who contributes to the travelling and nomad community, not sucks the life out of those who make it possible. If you think this is too much, or more than others, really what is your point? Is this about sharing information or restricting it? Are you the readers parent, or do you think they can make up their own mind about what they read and what suits them? Who's interest are you protecting or representing here for moderating these updates? What you keep reverting the text to is misleading, if not even defamatory. Do you really want my bio? What has this to do with sharing useful information? I don't think a treefrog has any more credibility than someone who provides information that can easily be researched and verified by anyone. Trust, are you kidding? Have you ever used Google and checked what you're trying to back up? I think some of your contributions are fantastic, but others are simply misleading and controlling. I wish we could see eye on eye on this, but if ego takes the better of this then I'm happy to leave it at this.
If one can't or doesn't want to see the differnce, it is very difficult to point out the difference in: 'The main thing you can do as a free member is "wave" to captains' (saying you can't do anything else) verses 'The main things you can do as a Free member are pretty much the same as a Premium member, except exchange personal messages with other matching Free members.' Most people would see that this means the exact opposite, and the later can easily be confirmed by anyone. Also it is not US$70/month because it is charged in AUD at AU$75 for 30 days (currently US$52), as currency conversion changes daily, and there is no monthly fee but a 30 days, 90 days, 180 days, or 360 days Premium, changing the monthly cost on the option one chooses, which can be as little as AU$28/month (US$19/month or GBP15/month), or even much less with the Lifetime Premium. Only someone who never used this site woud write US$70/month, and continually reverting back to that. You're discrediting your credibility by reinstating that. Do you really think you're the only one with internet access?
While who is promoting who with: 'CrewBay is probably the most useful free dedicated crew site as of 2020' verses 'CrewBay is another useful dedicated crew site'? Crewbay is giving members who pay more profile options and better ranking, while Find a Crew doesn't do any of that for anyone! Who really is a free dedicated crew site here? The one who gives the same chances to everyone from the start for as long as they like, or the one who puts those who pay ahead of those who don't? Not really free if you think about it.
Your views and opinions are totally valid for some, but please let other people think for themselves rather then you thinking you know better than them. I think it's called mutual respect and it doesn't cost anything - this is truly free for anyone!
- Thanks for the reply, and for the correction on the price (I originally wrote it based on a rough estimate from memory). Your approach is a bit aggressive and presumptuous for a new user who appears to be against the very principles of hitchhiking, in a resource written by and for hitchhikers. You may also be interested to know that I am not an actual treefrog. ;-) Anyway, I've made some compromise edits to address the issues you're concerned about. Please feel free to continue the discussion here, but please do not continue to make contentious edits without reaching a consensus here first. Treefrog (talk) 21:31, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Treefrog, are you the chief editor here? Why would you say being factual is 'aggressive and presumptuous' or 'contentious', and what makes you think I'm 'against the very principles of hitchhiking'? You seem to me of presuming a position of supremacy rather than trying to understand the subject. You're updates are not a compromise, they are wrong, and if you actually used either crew sites properly you would know that. What you're writing are clearly assumptions! Why don't you make your suggestions here first, instead of asking me to get your personal approval first? Who are you? You now write: "...but difficult to find a boat without paying for a membership", how do you know that? If that was true, there wouldn't be anyone using that site! There are more Premium boat members on Find a Crew then on any other crew site, so why should it be more difficult? You obviously seem to have your own agenda here, and only like to see written what's roughly in your memory rather than being factual and actually provide useful, relevant information for the hitchhiking community. I think your censoring is not providing any value or substance but rather a clear misinformation. I'm not sure who is reaching a consensus here first, from what I see your word is the consensus as you keep clearly omitting the relevant points without anyone else’s input and ignoring mine. It’s difficult not be cynical when one thinks a consensus is his or her bullish single handed editing of an honest, factual, and relevant contribution and sticking to false statements to reflect your narrow personal experience. Unless you can state what edits were 'contentious' and why, I think you're clearly out of your tree.
- I know about the things I wrote because I have used both sites quite a lot. Making changes that other people disagree with is contentious by definition. That's not an insult. Clearly you're neither familiar with how a wiki works nor interesting in learning. Pushing a strong opinion that benefits a third-party service as a first-time editor is not going to be very effective on much of any wiki community, and working out disagreements by consensus is how a wiki works - that means you don't keep pushing changes to the page if others disagree with them. This is a much more relaxed wiki than Wikipedia or Wikivoyage, which is the only reason you've even gotten this far. Nitpicking the way things are phrased to make them non-critical of a third-party service is not the same thing as "correcting facts". Treefrog (talk) 05:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Wow Treefrog, I get it! This is your own personal little project, not a wiki. Not sure who the 'other people' who disagree are? Anyway have it your way if this makes you feel better. Push your own little promo, while critising others. I guess no one else is permitted to edit this post because you seem to own this page. Wish you all the best and good luck.
Why don't you add your Find a Crew ID to your post so readers can actaully check if you ever were a member there and if you acually logged in that account. It's easy to make claims if you don't back them up. Seems to be a Trump thing, but not cool on a Wiki.
- I see you came back and made some more edits criticizing FindACrew rather than supporting it. I'm a little confused at why you seem to have changed your mind, but most of them seem okay. I wouldn't have been as critical as that of FindACrew - do you really think it's too hard to use? And the "why would you do that" on paying for Crewbay seems a little weird (sarcastic? you tell me...). I also thought it was fine for FindACrew to be listed first, since it's the biggest, but I don't really care that much about the order. Thanks for filling in more info on Crewseekers, which I don't know anything about. Treefrog (talk) 00:54, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
You're welcome Treefrog, I'm just learning and am trying to follow the "consensus". I also clarified the "why would you do that" to why would anyone want to pay for a year rather then at all, so it doesn't look too critical. It’s clear now that you allow talking up one site but don’t allow to state the facts about another, but that’s ok with me as I wasn’t intending to push either of them, just clarifying. But now that I know that you have your obvious preferences, I’m happy to support your point and hopefully gain your approval to become a worthy contributor here. And yes of course Find a Crew is not that simple for some, you should know that being a member there. I have used Find a Crew for many years now and it frustrates me sometimes that I can’t just do whatever I like. But unlike you, I have had some great trips that would have cost me thousands of dollars to get to those remote places and I made many amazing friends using that site and even got paid for some deliveries, - and no, not just because of my good looks.
- I was trying not to make it look like I was against any edit you make just because it's you. Usually "consensus" means finishing the discussion here before making any more edits that the other person/people might disagree with. But if you want us each to just go for it, then I guess I will. Just don't expect that to be accepted on wikis with more editors. One thing you can do if you're interested in following the etiquette is to start signing your comments on this talk page by typing ~~~~ at the end. Treefrog (talk) 06:28, 23 June 2020 (UTC)