Difference between revisions of "Talk:Hitchhiking Records"
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--> [[User:Prino|Prino]]'s opinion: I think it might warrant inclusion as it's relatively rare.
--> [[User:Prino|Prino]]'s opinion: I think it might warrant inclusion as it's relatively rare.
- Hitchwiki, for being the biggest hitchhiking website
- Hitchwiki, for being the biggest hitchhiking website
Revision as of 23:48, 22 September 2015
Things to do/discuss
- Take out Roberts record in the bottom, as it is twice in the article.--Korn (talk) 18:55, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
- I think every "route-bound" record should be taken out of the page. It can not be an argument, that something "was" in the Guiness Book and should be put into it, just because of this fact (what do they know about hitchhiking). Through the edit and adding of the new records, the page got a new face and a new dramaturgy, which should be acknowledged. Most of the records contain very well known community members and the achievements are highly recognized (at leats within the eastern scene).
It should be the aim of this page, to keep it not being flooded with records. For this reason i would exclude every record, which is bound to a specific route, because you can just put any route in it. But it is not the purpose of this article. This is a easy but consequent rule for the general quality of the article. We victimize something through it. But as a solution, we can have another Wiki page about the Guiness book, or about famous routes hitched in a certain amount of time, which we refer in this post in the link section too.
Of course: At the same time not take everything too serious. The records are built on trust in peoples words. This page is also alot about fun. Fun to read it. Nevertheless, to all further edits, pls keep an eye on it and be sensible, that the page is not turning into ridiculousness. I just want to safe a certain standart of information here.
Also (for trying to set continuative benchmarks) There should be a certain amount of performance included in the achievement, or just the extraordinary portion of luck (or both) to make a record show up on this page.
- The whole page also would benefit from uniforming the layout. This includes restructuring the text in so much that in half of the records the record itself is mentioned first in order of performance, while other records mention first the name or names of the people who set that record. This structuring is in my perception not logical. I believe that this structure already existed in the article on its previous location (VHHC? PASL?). Furthermore, the records have to be re-ordered, as some are more important that others. Perhaps we could sort the records in categories like 1) lifetime achievements 2) full year achievements 3) full trip/journey achievements 4) 24 hour achievements 5) other achievements.
- If nobody else volunteers, I would perform this task. --Fverhart (talk) 19:28, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
- What does the Guinness Book know about hitch-hiking? Well, not that much of course, since they do not keep records about it (anymore) ;) However, in general I would believe that Guinness Book is an authority when it comes to selecting and registering records and in verifying record entries. To me, this still shows from the "old" data on Hitchwiki, like the gradual improvement of John O Goats to Land's End record over the years. Guinness seems to be just really good at registering such records and it would be hoped for, and an honor for the sport, if hitch-hiking would be included again in their registry. As for this page, I do not know what feels better to me yet: to split it up in two, or to keep it in one. The route suggestions are not relevant to me. --Fverhart (talk) 19:28, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
"like the gradual improvement"
- Definitely a nice effect. But not relevant in this page. Maybe easier to take it out then. --Korn (talk) 19:42, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
- I restructured the records already a bit and tried to cluster within "topics". I would not go the path of relevance as it is very subjective thing. And the general idea that "this record is more important than another one" seems to point in a direction of (de)preciating records and might set a negativ discussion culture.--Korn (talk) 19:42, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
Irrelevant part of World Record
The last three rides they caught with another competitor that they met along the way. does is not relevant for the biggest number of rides in 24h record. --Fverhart (talk) 10:07, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
- I have felt as free to already have done that yesterday, when I also added the new records Fastest round the world hitchhike trip (Alexej Vorov), Highest number of countries within 10 days (Miran Ipavec) and Longest "driving the driver" ride (Frank Verhart). --Fverhart (talk) 19:15, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
Adding records discussion on Hitchwiki' FB page
- "needlessly" in as far as proper English and spelling checking is concerned. ;-) --Fverhart (talk) 19:04, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
Hitchwiki (Mikael Korpela) posted the link to this record page in the Facebook Hitchwiki page and added the question: any records to add?
This post yielded the following answers, of which we (or actually, who should?) evaluate whether they are worth to be included and of a reliable source.
First, matters that may be relevant.
- Miran Ipavec, for crossing the biggest number of European countries in Europe, 30 (+ Kosovo) within 10 days. Submitted by Frank Verhart and Prino, see below
--> Frank's opinion: include in the record list --> Prino's opinion: This is very worthy of inclusion!
- Alexey Vorov, for fastest around the world hitch, 20 days. Submitted by Frank Verhart
--> Frank's opinion: include in the record list --> Prino's opinion: Abso-flucking-lutely!
- biggest number of rides in 24hrs, Jake de Vries claimed 11 rides, which was answered by Koen and Stefan 32 rides
--> Frank's opinion: include in the record list, at the same time this record is very, very easy to break. --> Prino's opinion: Utter bollocks. My lifetime average stands at 5.4 rides per day, and I absolutely hate days with 7,8, 9 or more rides! What's the flipping use of having to wait 31 times between rides?
- biggest number of grouped up hitch-hikers that got a ride. Guillaume claimed 6, Tom Moon claimed 7, but then Jimmy Comamala mentioned that they got a ride from an empty coach when their coach broke down, 52 people.
--> Frank's opinion: we cannot include the 52 people claim before we have a discussing weather a train full of refugees, who do not have to pay for their transportation - humanitarian help - may be considered hitch-hiking. The harsh it is for these people, such transportation meets some of the key hitch-hiking criteria: getting a ride without paying for it and by asking for it from otherwise strangers. --> Prino's opinion: Once was part of a group of 12 people that got a ride in an empty bus. The 52 people claim is iffy, and as for refugees juming on trains? Please pass me a bucket, that has nothing to do with hitchhiking, even though it might share some of the characteristics!
- biggest distance "driving your driver" by Frank Verhart. The longest distance I drove in the car of a driver was 781 km, from service station Gralla on the A9 near Graz to service station Medenbach Ost on the A3 near Frankfurt/M. Total distance that I've driven drivers is 1382 kms during four rides.
--> Frank's opinion: sure it ain't a world record c'mon - at the same time if nobody claims more - then why not. I think that driving the driver is some kind of achievement ;). --> Prino's opinion: I think it might warrant inclusion as it's relatively rare.
- Robert. I noticed that your fastest in your carreer ride (congrats!) happened at the same time as my "driving your driver" 781 km =D. Quite a little coincidence! I've already included my 781 km in the list. Would you recommend me to contact our colleagues in Lithuania and Russia to see if they know anyone who "drove his driver" over a longer distance. As stated before, I'm very sure others have "driven their drivers" over a longer distance than me. But as long as nobody claims... it would be at least fair to verify this with LT and RU. What is your thought on that. --Fverhart (talk) 23:48, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
- Hitchwiki, for being the biggest hitchhiking website Submitted by Kasper Souren
--> Frank's opinion: funny but irrelevant "record"
--> Prino's opinion: Sigh...
- Tom Moon for hitchhiking lap record for the Circuit de Monaco,
Finally, some claims that are clearly not relevant (not all included here)
- Jan Geleijns for biggest hitch-hiking distance within the Netherlands: 175.000 km (very, very rough estimation) in 25 years time, submitted by Frank Verhart...
--> Frank's opinion: irrelevant for the list --> Prino's opinion: I think having records per country could be quite interesting.
- Highest average ride speed in Poland: 177.8 kmh. By Frank Verhart
--> Frank's opinion: irrelevant for the list. However, I've posted this fact in a Polish hitch-hikers FB Group "Autostopowicze czyli MY" which had about 15-20 answers from others who had fast rides in PL. The topic has been removed by the admins though. Many hitchers have had fast rides, but very few accurately register their rides, judging from the answers, so that very few reliable claims for average speed are made. Most of the hitch-hikers probably estimated the average by the occasional look at the average speed. Some mentioned highest driving speeds of up to 270-280 kmh, which nobody surpassed, so that highest speeds listed on our World Record page stand out compared to these experiences in Poland. As for the claimed averages, they went up to 200-220 kmh, often from or to the borders. It's unclear if these were full rides or high speed sections of rides (which means, that the ride average is (a lot?) lower --Fverhart (talk) 10:07, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
--> Prino's opinion: Again, the inclusion of tabulated country-specific records would be very interesting.
- Anja Velika: I know a girl who hitched a ride with another friend, two bikes, two bike trailers and two dogs
--> Frank's opinion: randomness, not a record --> Prino's opinion: Tony Hawks hitched with a fridge... A Dutch guy with a caravan. Ken Welsh had an entry in "Hitchhikers Guide to Europe" for "Weirdest ride"...
What to put into the article and what not
You had two chances to bring up some arguments and start a discussion. Still i am looking for any answer to my question, why you just copy paste the old article under the new one? Why you put your record twice into it, if it is already included? What is your intention with your rude behaviour? Why do we need every entry from the Land´s End record? No reaction.
Or let´s say it the other way around. I was more interested in the question: Do you want to contribute something to this process? Or is it just a wounded pride show, cause someone whipped off your unfinished article. I didn´t know it was yours (neither i care), so don´t take it personal. The article had an introduction note, that it was unfinished. Nevermind. It was just a bad article. Vladas gave me all those old records, made by very well-known community members and asked me to include them. So i did. Already alot of people helped to correct things and make it even better. You just invested time to insult me and bringing up super arrogant behaviour. Not worth to deal with, because (as i already said) it does not have the intention to lead anywhere but depreciate me.
And to make this clear. It took me some time to make this article. It took me some time to get all the infos. I come here only with the intention to make this article better and i have to deal with this childish bullshit. Not a nice feeling. Not fun at all. You poisoned the whole discussion without contributing anything. Congratz.
If this is the way you do collaborative work in a Wikipedia, you should really rethink your own role here. Nitpicking on time and spelling. Doing (obviously) useless edits. Aggressively insulting me. Not even having the manners to excuse yourself for false statements and neither stopping your passiv aggressiv behaviour. Honestly, nobody wants this and your infantil reaction is not at all legitimated for an edit, even IF i "carelessly wiped off" anything. If you never learned to behave in the Internet, mabe now is the time. (btw. there is a wrong spelling in the "mabe". I saw that. I could correct it. But i just don´t care. Humans make mistakes. Get over it.)
Conclusion: I am not here to be the dustbin for you whatever-frustration. I am not here to deal with any personal stuff. I want to create content. I see that this discussion is more going about speeling, disrespectful nonsense and the minor details about the record which has my name on it, then it goes about the things we have to discuss. You pushed me to do this statement, which is kinda embarassing in itself, that we are at this point. I tried to started this in a calm and respectful mood. Not succeeded. So: I will not take part in editing this page further.
PS.: And it would be really pleasing, if you guys would stop ripping apart posts. Nobody can follow, especially if you comment without putting your signature in. Just write a block and quote in your own posting, this is much easier to read.
Hi Robert, before i answer i would ask you to participate in a constructive discussion here. Insultings and overreaction will lead nowhere. I try to react on your posting in a respectable way and i also ask you to show a bit more respect in this further discussion. Thanks.--Korn (talk) 05:30, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
- If you can use proper English, every browser has a spelling checker nowadays, I might. Prinoblog, talk 19:46, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
I put the Guiness Book Part out, because compared to the amount of information in the other headlines, this seems to be a bit too much and too boring (to be honest).
- It is also the source of the only authenticated records!
Also the "Suggestions" are a bit useless. I vote to exclude this.
- You can vote what you want, getting 32 rides on a day is something only an (censored) would consider an achievement...
The "Most rides in one day" came up in a Facebook discussion. Not by me. Is there anything you have to say to my vote, except "You can vote what you want"? I will be glad to hear your opinion.
- The record 32 is very easy to break, you only have to hit the road for 24hrs with the purpose of doing it, and I expect that it can be done in just a few hours if you just pick the right spot and hitch back and forth every time 1 km (e.g. between traffic lights or busstops). I don't mind it's inclusion that much. --Fverhart (talk) 10:23, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
- It is not the sense of a record to just hitch back and forth to break it. I think this is very silly discussion. I wonder what your purpose for this is. Also i am suprised, why you depreciate this so vehement. Even two times in this discussion. It is neither polite, nor does it make any sense. You could also say "Lowest temperature is very easy to beat, you just have to go to Russia, wait for the coldest winter and then catch a ride". You can also beat the last record and just give some random hitchhiker 300€. --Korn (talk) 19:45, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
- The lowest and highest temperatures encountered while hitchhiking and the money given to a hitchhiker are three records that have absolutely nothing to do with hitchhiking. I do not know why they were ever added to the VAK page, and neither do I feel any sympathy for Ken Welsh "Slowest ride between two points", when no sane hitchhiker would ever spend 4:30 on a milkfloat to cover a distance they could have covered on foot in 30 minutes. Prinoblog, talk 22:35, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
- It makes a lot of sense to try to break a hitch-hiking records. What is a record if there is no sense of "improving" it? And breaking the 32 rides is actually a lot easier for me than going to Russia in the freaking cold as I have truly no wish to do so, as it will cost me a month and I would have to buy visa which I by principle do not want. Giving 300+ euro to a hitch-hiker is not an option for me as well, unless you give me that money, then we can think of an agreement. So, hitting the road for 33+ rides is for me first choice, to which my main objectives are 1) I do not feel like it and 2) it would not be good for my ride length averages. That means, one competitor less and your record still stands ;). Congratulations! PS. Try to beat mine (which I've already included): longest "driving your driver" ride 781 km. --Fverhart (talk) 23:28, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
- I am not a member of $uckerberg's Cesspit/Faecesbucket, and such idiot discussions show that I'm right. Prinoblog, talk 19:46, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
- No it means $uckerberg and Feacesbook. All this person is after is getting as much info about you as possible to sell it to the highest bidder. Read Social Media is Making Us Anti-Social. Ditto with what once was a nice community, C$, until its founder smelled even more money than he already got through the fake "verification" scam, and sold out, read A criticism of CouchSurfing and review of alternatives. Prinoblog, talk 22:35, 22 September 2015 (CEST)
"Further reference" makes sense to me in this article and can stay.
Maybe the "Guinness Book of Records Hitchhiking" fit more into another article about the History of Hitchhiking within the Guinness Book.
- No, they are records, no need to create more pages.
Actually listing all the times from each year is not a record at all. Furthermore I still dont think anyone is interested in it. If you want to keep it, then keep the actual record time. But for a general overview in this article, I would exclude all records that are regarding to a specific route, just because it is getting too much and you can theoretically put and route in it, you want.--Korn (talk) 05:29, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
- The GBOR hitchhiking records were top of the pops in the pre-internet times, times when hitch-hiking was a tad less of a society-marginal activity and hence these records deserve a lot of respect. Land's End to John O Goats was then true such thing that hitch-hikers would like to beat in order to be recorded in the new edition of the GBOR. If we every would like to see hitch-hiking records come back to the GBOR, I think we should at least keep them in here! --Fverhart (talk) 10:23, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
The 24 hour entry of you Robert is included in the new list. No need to have it twice in the article. I furthermore don´t see a point to just copy paste the old article under the new one. Maybe you want to explain your intention with this edit. :)
- It was a nice article about records, until someone decided to act first and talk later - FWIW, there is a "Preview" button, no need to make umpteen changes of a single line!
The article was unfinished, as the introduction stated it. I added all record from the VHHC Club. Beside bitching around without giving any argument it would be nice if you could explain yourself without being so rude. Thanks. I gave your the opportunity for it and i just wanted to understand your behaviour. And again i ask you, why there is a need to put your record under the list, if it is already included? --Korn (talk) 05:29, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
I will stop editing, before we worked something out here.
- Very good, then I can also try to put Miran Ipavec's records back, which you also carelessly wiped off the page!
- And finally, only ass-backward Britsh and Americans use am and pm times, the rest of the world is quite happy with 24 hour times!
- I know, but that's not a reason to not use internationally accepted date and time formats, or proper English! Every flipping browser has spell-check dictionaries in every language (except of course stuff from Redmond), so it's very easy to use them. Dittor with another of my pet peeves, gas versus petrol: in Europe we use petrol and get it in petrol stations, in the US they use gas and get it in gas stations! Prinoblog, talk 19:46, 21 September 2015 (CEST)
World Records related to hitchhiking has been removed from Guinness book years ago. Why shouldn't we start a new list? What do you think? How can somebody prove a world record? Any ideas? --Quarim 07:31, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
- We could allow people to claim a record, until someone else overrides it? Persons should be in our trust-networks for matter of knowing it is true or not. --Robino 14:00, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
... is virtually impossible and that's why (or so I guess) the Guinness Book of Records has stopped accepting them. I asked the four drivers who helped me cover the 2,318.4 km for their names and addresses, but Guinness initially wasn't interested. It was only because I'd been in touch with Ken Welsh a couple of years earlier, to point out that someone had plagiarized his "Hitch-Hikers Guide to Europe" that they relented.
If we're going to set up a records page, it will depend on honesty and we should only accept claims from people who actually keep some kind of logs. My € 0.02... --Prino 18:13, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
North Cape to Gibraltar
That one seems a little odd - is it in hitchhiker's popular culture, or why is it there instead of maybe North Cape to the Algarve or to Sicily or to the Bosporus?--Zenit 18:50, 1 August 2010 (UTC)