Talk:789

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Maybe we could put UKRAINE in Top Suggestions, to be chosen: Kiev, Odesa or Lviv?

There's a thread going on on the CS "Ukraine" group. Check it out.

  • + People from many eastern countries could take part - there are not many events where East meets West - it is powerful!
  • + not expensive
  • + success would stop bad gossip about hitching in Ukr
  • - people from non-European countries like Australia and Israel need a visa for the Ukraine
people from ex-USSR countries need visas for all suggested countries except Ukraine User:lucysd
Baltic states are also from ex-USSR, but we do not need visa for any other country that are suggested.
Surely i didn't mean Baltic, Balkan states, Romania, Bulgaria... I was talking about Russia, Belarus, Caucasus region etc which make a huge area together.--lucysd 01:21, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
  • +/_ Do you speak russian/ukrainian?? Have to know at least basics.
I support the Ukraine as meeting place. i think there are quite some Russian hitchhikers that would like to come and also share and exchange their HH knowledge that includes most parts of the world. I am happy to make the contact. --Alex 15:50, 26 August 2008 (CEST)



Kiev

Cool

  • Well known name
  • The most cosmopolitan of the three
  • Most of English speaking people live there User:lucysd
  • Trukhanov Ostrov (Trukhanov Island) in the Dnieper is located pretty much in the city centre - there's a beach and forest there, and it's very easy to camp there overnight.
  • At the beginning of August both days and nights are typically very warm, which is good for sleeping outdoors.

Not cool

  • Far away from the border. The roads are not so good and hitching will be slow.
Lviv-Kiev road (good traffic, a lot of trucks, direct cars) is much better than Lviv-Odesa one. That one goes through the small towns where you can stuck for the whole day easily. User:lucysd
  • Just like any other Western City, and it is pretty expensive

Odesa

Cool

  • Let's go to the beach !! We can do the meeting there.
  • Well known name
  • Moldavanka Former bohemian district
  • Catacombs Photos Video
  • Huge sea port, for boat hitchhikers
  • Lots of young people speak English and very friendly people
  • It's easier to get there for Bolgarian, Romanian, Moldavian, Turkish people compared with going to Kiev/Lviv
  • It's close to the biggest wild european area - the Danube Delta (& to Vilkovo - so called "Ukrainian Venice" situaded in the ukrainian part of the delta.) User: jurarafal
  • It's warm there :-)

Not cool

Comment from Julien: Transnitria seems to be the border between Moldova and the general direction of Odesa. There is no border crossing between Romania and the Ukraine south from Moldova/Transnistria.
This means that people have to hitchhike via the north of Romania / Poland into Ukraine, and thus go along L'viv or Kiev. Might be difficult for people from the Balkans, Bulgaria or Turkey to hitch the whole of Romania up, just for going all the way south again. The same for the way back. Is there really no border crossing near the Danube Delta ? Anyway, from Paris to Odesa, it's only 2850km, looks like a nice trip :) platschisite, wikitalk 13:51, 24 August 2008 (CEST)
Transnistria? It is the region east of the Dniester River (which is in the North-East) and on the fastest (geographically) route from Amsterdam to Odesa. Apparently you even have to bribe people and fill in some forms just to pass through. Tough luck. If Odesa is chosen, I will have to go either through Kiev (100km extra by the fastest route) or through Romania and a little bit through the south (which is o.k.) of Moldova --Robino 11:10, 26 August 2008 (CEST)
Ah, it is possible to reach Odesa through West-Ukraine and Moldova. Follow the E85. Turn east at Chernivtsi into direction of Chişinău (capital of Moldova) and turn back to the Ukraine right after Chişinău through the E58. You don't go through Transnistria --Robino 11:31, 26 August 2008 (CEST)
There is a topic on CS explaining the issues with the border-crossing, giving us the option that does not go through Transnitria
It is possible not to go through Transnistria. If going through Romania, you can cross the Danube (there is - or at least was - a ferry in Izmail). If going through Moldova, you can go south or north. --User:yurr
Can you (or someone else) confirm the ferry? I wanted to cross from the Ukraine to Romania, South from Moldova in 2005 and then I had to go all the way around Moldova because the only boat going across the Danube I found was a private one and the guy wanted 400 US$ to drop me off on the other side. guaka 08:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't get what way do U mean in Ur post. Did U try to cros from Tulcea to Izmail? I hitched from Odessa to Galati then toook a ferry (cost ~0,5 €)and then got a ride to Tulcea & had no any problem. Here U have a photo of the "misterious ferry" with its exact geographical location displayed next to it: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/386916. as far as I remember it was a long long walk from the city centre. User:jurarafal
  • Beach: Imagine a beach in the beginning of August, close to a big city - I don't think that 120 hitchhikers could just go there and camp for a couple of days without having problems with people who live from tourism.. But I don't know how many tourists Odessa has..
there are many 'wild' beaches around the city, we can always go there. E.g. huge empty beaches area 1 hour away from Odesa (google maps), and i just googled some other places like this. User:lucysd
I fully support user's Lucysd option. I wanted to add the same.

From Odessa its pretty close to Vilkovo so called Ukrainian Venice situaded in the ukrainian part of Danube Delta. User:jurarafal

Lviv

Cool

  • SAFER (and easier) access - especially for female hitchhikers!
From the west that is - User:Sitarane
  • Starting/Meeting point ( from a western perspective ) for 789 , from which we can then decide to move on to any other "after 789 destinations" User:Dante
Hey! Actually, if Lviv is not chosen as the final destination, it can still be a sort of "final stopover" that could stay open for two days or more before everyone from west of Lviv rides together to Kyiv or Odessa. A bit like Utrecht, NL was in 888 for the north-east crowd --Sitarane
Great idea!--lucysd 01:21, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Meeting in Lviv/Lvov can make it easier for hitch hikers coming from the west to meet more of our Ukrainian and Russian speaking friends, who can then recommend us about further hitch hiking and traveling in Ukraina after 789, and/or could allow for mixing up couples/teams of non-russian/ukrainian speaking hitch hikers with russian/ukrainian hitch hikers. User:Dante
  • Historically international city, lost its spirit after the wars... still the representatives 100 nationalities and ethnic groups live on the territory L'viv
  • You can hitch to Lviv speaking only polish - former polish area
Why is this not in the "not cool" area? :) --Sitarane
It IS cool for polish people who don't speak any Ukrainian or Russian ;) I guess that's what he/she meant in the comment :)--lucysd 01:21, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Not cool

  • Difficult to promote hitchhiking there
    • Why?!
Yeah, why? Unless backed up soon, this statement will be removed. Hem, let's say in February 2009 --Sitarane
  • Not known. "International HH week in Lviv" is not like "International HH week in... er... Munich or something" - User:Sitarane
I thought Lviv is better known than Odesa as it lays on the way from Western Europe to the East lucysd
In France (I'm french), people have heard the name "Kiev" and "Odessa" many times and sometime, they know it's in Ukraine. But the name Lviv is completely unknown, and I suppose it will be the same is many other countries that are far from Ukraine (of course, people know Lviv in Poland). I think that when we go on the international news, "Hitch-hiking festival in _city_", it is important that the average TV customer clicks with the name of the city. For the sake of our aim, that is to make hitch-hiking more mainstream. --Sitarane
  • Only 60km from Polish border - no possibility to 'explore' Ukraine on the way to Lviv if you're coming from the West User:lucysd
Think about it westerners. You don't want to hitch-hike all that way to just see 60 km of Ukrainian landscape... --Sitarane


Comments

  • We didn't talk much about Kiev but I talked today with two ukrainian kids, one of them with a HH background that would put Ludo to shame, and they seemed to think Kiev was a better idea. It being more multicultural than the two others.

They were also pretty surprised that Lviv would be elected "most depressive place in Europe". They told me it was a really cute place. Sitarane

  • Yeah, I really enjoyed Lviv, such a beautiful place, and it is amusing how all the women there dress the same.


  • I would suggest any easy and nice to camp at beach location or similar nice nature places - no cities !! Nat-Cho (CS)
    • If our aim is to attract public attention, then I believe we need a city. Sitarane
    • There is a lot of people in Odessa beach, but when the city will be chosen we maybe need to find a place with our own eyes or contact other people near from that place who can take photos MiSha 19:43, 27 August 2008 (CEST)
  • Perhaps Sevastopol? It is in the Crimea Peninsula, there is beach, park, Russian Naval Fleet, Ancient Greek Ruins, a lot farther then any of these cities though
    • Not a good idea may be due to presence of Ukrainian and Russian military there. Camping may attract attention of police in militarized zone.

Thát is a challenge! Afterwards we can hitchhike a boat to Istanbul :)--Banzai 17:30, 30 August 2008 (CEST)

  • Schengen and Russian citizen at least can go visa free. Sitarane


  • Is it not the fashion that anyone will stop to take you in but they expect that you'd pay for the ride? Sitarane
    • One Ukrainian girl told me that as well. But then, I heard also that you can hitch without paying, if you explain it and drivers accept it. Mirto
    • We can also made a paper to explain why hitchhiking have to be free... ? MiSha 19:43, 27 August 2008 (CEST)
Excellent! We should make a template here. --Sitarane
    • On the highways drivers generally do not expect you to pay them for a ride.
      • When I hitched in Ukraine no one asked for money from about 10 rides
        • Maybe you just didn't get they're expecting some fee? :) --lucysd 03:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  • maybe we could try to find 3 locals from those 3 locations who would explain pros and cons? Mirto
    • you're right, they will propose some good place to do the meeting MiSha 19:43, 27 August 2008 (CEST)
  • it would be nice a city with a beach ( and a beautiful sunrise ) that ways like in Paris even waken up by the cops you start with something beautiful in your eye and it's going to be a good day ! but it's going to be hard to find something better than the Eiffel Tower :) xo just kidding

- Kremlin? ;)

  • In Ukraine you can camp FREE anywhere, parks, side of road, no one cares.
  • Hey err... about Ukraine. If we want to promote hicthhiking, in what language are we going to do that? Ukrainians don't really speak English, I know from personal experience :s And I'm not going to talk about the many benefits of hicthhiking in Russian...--Banzai 20:50, 17 August 2008 (CEST)
    • It's sure that we will be with a lot of russians people and they could do the traduction. Also, we can ask to a lot of ukrainians people who speak english on all the hospitality website to participate at the meeting ! Definitely, language isn't a frontier in that kind of meeting, it will be fun :) Misha
  • My first reaction was...are you crazy??? Ok, you might say it's just because of my personal experience (about two months overthere and thousands of kilometres by hitch-hiking) and you would be partly right, but I also heard and meet some people with really bad experience.. So my arguments.
  1. Boarders - how many of us get stucked at boarders for at least some hours? And believe me, just to stuck there for some time is still not that bad at all. Or of course, you can bribe those primitives and everything will be ok. But I admit, that to Lviv is one quite good boarder, where they are quite busy and don't care much about some foreigners (but with Ukrainian boarders, you never know...)
  2. Ok, so we are at Ukraine already (well some of us are still at boarder and some of us maybe wait for court or something, who knows...). Police...if you look little diferent (as we all do), they keep controling you many times, without any reason. And I have no idea, what can happend if you can't communicate with them at all. And usually they are not very friendly, trust me.
  3. Hitch-hiking - actually the reason, why we all come there. Very boring, people almost all the time want money (me personaly I was all the time saying that I have no money to let them know...), so it's not very enjoyable. But Lviv would be ok, cause it's not far from boarders. So this is my opinion in very short version. What do YOU think???
Very good arguments I would say. Lviv could be a good location for many reasons I see, and for sure the discussion is not over yet ;) Thanks for your contribution, if you would sign up for an account you can also sign your message by putting ~~~~. Robino 19:59, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
    • You've got a really strange experience of Ukraine, concerning police and hitch-hiking.
In case we go to Ukraine, the police will be aware of it. The event is of sufficient magnitude that the administration will know about it. In any case, we will tell them. --Sitarane

Several parallel hitchhikers gatherings at 7.8.9.

- And now for a completely different concept - 

Did you come up with a quite different idea, in which gatherings are organized all over Europe in several countries, for example in five countries or even in twenty countries "(intra-) national" style. For example one event in Portugal/Spain, one in Benelux/France, one in Germany/Poland, one in Scandinavia, one in UK/Ireland, one in Ukraine, one in Russia, one in Czech/Slovak/Austria and so on... Or: one in northern Europe, one in western Europe, one in southern Europe, one in eastern Europe and one in Central Europe.

We actually did discuss the option, but kind of agreed to do a call for international gatherings on all continents. This would be the European one then. I think the idea of multiple gatherings is very nice, but it might be something rather for the year after, or to do it on 999 (one month later, let smaller gatherings spring!)? --Robino 16:52, 21 August 2008 (CEST)
A lot of friendships will disapear : for logistik and choice reasons . Also it won't be a challenge any more ! At the 888, a lot of people have made a long distance for their first or second time, it was really adventurous for everyone. That's also why they had enjoy it like a great experience of their life. Some of them said that they are now definitely hitchhikers for that kind of reasons. Little distances for everyone will broke our adventure's dreams Misha 13:10, 24 aout 2008...
I completely agree with Misha. Additional, if there are parallel gatherings, it would be hard for some people to decide where to go. Some friends may go to e.g. Berlin, while I prefer the gathering in Glasgow, etc. Maybe I want to do a longer trip than the short distance to the nearest gathering, and people might then prefer one gathering more than the other, etc. blabla. I'm definitely pro one-location meeting. platschisite, wikitalk 13:39, 24 August 2008 (CEST)
The main thing for me is that the idea was discussed on the 888 meeting. I think we should not discuss if several meetings is better than one meeting here. It was discussed on 888 and it was not considered an option to consider, as I understand from Robino, the 888-attendance "kind of" agreed that 789 should be one gathering. Perhaps the whole thing should be left there, or it could be a choice to poll it on this or perhaps (?) better several websites, as it would be then some kind of democratic decision. Or simply follow the agreement on 888, that said it was "kind of" agreed that 789 should be one location. In my opinion it should be done in the most democratic way (in this sense I disagree with Platschi ~ and I feel and hope that hitchhikers are not that much an inseparable and nomadic family, just a bunch of happy people :D Anyway, if it's about personal opinions, I'd more likely go to a European hitchhikers meeting if it were to be held less than 200 km away, than in case it was more. But of course a big meeting makes a longer journey more acceptable :D --Fverhart 14:11, 25 August 2008 (CEST)
Frank, no decision really was taken at the 888 about this. We agreed we would open up debate for the different options (hence this page) and then have voting open when the proposals are done and we are ready (October is the planning but we'll still need to implement the voting-system actually). So, if you want to add the idea for multiple meetings, that would be totally in line with what we agreed at 888 --Robino 00:30, 26 August 2008 (CEST)
With 150 ppl attendance at 888, we would not have had enough people to make sustainable multiple groups. If 789 counts more than 500 ppl, we can do it for next time. - User:Sitarane


Cool

  • bigger reach of hitchhikers
  • clear cooperation / organisation need / tasks / goal for European hitchhikers clubs
  • easier participation since the nearest meeting is more nearby, than in case of one gathering place
  • more local media attention, supporting the goals

Not so cool

  • you might fear (?) the number of hitchhikers is smaller on each meeting
  • the real road bums might not like... ;)
  • to be separated between hitchhiker's brother
  • Littles distances = little adventure
  • friends might be spread over different locations

Several serial hitchhikers-gatherings at 7.8.9

The trouble of separating people can be resolved if we travel with the meeting ! It means that all together we can make several meetings in diferents places, while one week of traveling. For example, we can meet all together in Kiev, promote hitchhiking and have a party in that huge cultural city. Next let's go to Odessa for continue on the beach and have a party in catacombs. Finaly accomplish a human mission in Kosovo ?! MiSha 15:47, 31 August 2008 (CEST)

Hey, and we can make it a small contest too perhaps? From once city to another? Or maybe that would kill the chill... Dunno, just an idea...--Banzai 17:32, 31 August 2008 (CEST)
Hey, I liked the idea of 888 being a non-moving meeting, as it was different. There are so many hiking races already. Forgive my closemindness, but I want 789 to have a similar face. Mirto 17:44, 31 August 2008 (CEST)
go to several hithhikers to a other city isn't automaticly a race MiSha 12:30, 2 September 2008 (CEST)
maybe the best solution is, that we plan a meeting on 789 at city X, and then afterwards we can give people who want the chance to hitch with y other people to place z. so it's still a non-moving meeting, everyone can decide what to do after the meeting: hitchhike with a (big) group to another city/village, go home, go elsewhere or whatever... platschisite, wikitalk 13:34, 2 September 2008 (CEST)
I don't think it will work for people who will be tired, but maybe if we have for the arrival 2 check points city and then just make it one, we will have some hitchhike together and it will still a no-moving event...? MiSha 14:43, 2 September 2008 (CEST)
It's going to be difficult for the people arriving late to follow and also for the one who didn't sleep during the night and with a hangover
All these ideas sound good to me (except the competition element, it was agreed to leave all forms of competition out of the event). We probably will have meeting places on the way, and people can team up, etc, just like we did before. If some want to do a call to meet up at a certain place with a certain mission prior to 789, why not? Also counts for what you want to do afterwards... Though the idea would also be to stay for some days at the destination spot to have meetings, workshops, etc. So it would be nice if the moving to a next place would be planned for after the weekend. --Robino 17:24, 2 September 2008 (CEST)

Cool

  • A few practical will represent our convictions
Please rephrase, I do not understand --Sitarane
  • This is a nice way to promote hitchhiking by showing what we know to do
  • It won't be any more your own trip but our own trip
  • We will have a physical human goal

Not cool

  • It can become a little bite a challenge, not any more the europeean hitchhikers no-moving meeting
  • Seem to be a hiking race
  • Not everyone might have several weeks of holidays for extending this trip

Brazilian Version

I and a friend was talk a bit about do this project here paralel to european. Now i'm do a long travel around all South America for 1 year (or a little less). In this travel, i'm meeting others hitchs or who want start, and I think that my travel will help to meet and invite others hitchhikers....

Brazil is a very big country and i think that is almost like a continent.

North America

While I had a blast at 888, I won't be able to make it back over to Europe this coming year due to other adventures. I have spoken to a few others whom would be interested in a North American version of the event. However, having no experience in planning something like this, I was wondering if anyone else would be interested in an event in the US/Canada (Most likely on the west coast)? --Stove

Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

  • http://www.the789project.com/
    • In 789 on 2010-11-11 13:33:20, Socket Error: 'Temporary failure in name resolution'
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--Lanigiro 03:01, 20 November 2010 (CET)